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How Old is the Earth?
32 Comments - 3735 Views
Creation Minute.
Submitted By bigdog on 10/03/22
FreeHovind, bigdog, Creation and Evolution 

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Re: How Old is the Earth?
10 hours - 500v
Posted 2010/03/22 - 20:00 GMT
Ha ha ha!
 
All the evidence that Eric uses exceeds when he claims the flood happened.
 
Anyone willing to post his failed logic in his examples? 
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
1 day - 2,617v
Posted 2010/03/22 - 23:06 GMT
HA HA HA HA LA LA LA LA HA HA! wait i got carried away there. if there was no flood then how come every culture and religion has a similar flood legend like Hovind said? there is something like 500 flood legends similar to the Bible flood.

http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html

Eric Hovind makes another good point that the mountains and continets are deteriorating from rain and weather. so if it were to take only 25 million years to level out all the dirt into the ocean....lets see? 4.6 billion divided by 25 million = 160. the mountains and continents should have leveled out 160 times already.

so the earth can't be old. LOL!
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
10 hours - 500v
Posted 2010/03/22 - 23:35 GMT
 how come every culture and religion has a similar flood legend like Hovind said
 
Is there flood legend in Japanese and North American native cultures? Are these stories referring to worldwide or regional floods? "Legends" like the Noah's ark?
 
Eric Hovind makes another good point that the mountains and continets are deteriorating from rain and weather. so if it were to take only 25 million years to level out all the dirt into the ocean....lets see? 4.6 billion divided by 25 million = 160. the mountains and continents should have leveled out 160 times already.
 
Obviously, you have never studied geology.
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
1 day - 2,617v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 0:41 GMT

Here are a few flood stories.

Africa
Southwest Tanzania
Once upon a time the rivers began to flood. The god told two people to get into a ship. He told them to take lots of seed and to take lots of animals. The water of the flood eventually covered the mountains. Finally the flood stopped. Then one of the men, wanting to know if the water had dried up let a dove loose. The dove returned. Later he let loose a hawk which did not return. Then the men left the boat and took the animals and the seeds with them.

Asia (all asian including maybe....Japan)
China
The Chinese classic called the Hihking tells about "the family of Fuhi," that was saved from a great flood. This ancient story tells that the entire land was flooded; the mountains and everything, however one family survived in a boat. The Chinese consider this man the father of their civilization. This record indicates that Fuhi, his wife, three sons, and three daughters were the only people that escaped the great flood. It is claimed, that he and his family were the only people alive on earth, and repopulated the world.

Babylon
Gilgamesh met an old man named Utnapishtim, who told him the following story. The gods came to Utnapishtim to warn him about a terrible flood that was coming. They instructed Utnapishtim to destroy his house and build a large ship. The ship was to be 10 dozen cubits high, wide and long. Utnapishtim was to cover the ship with pitch. He was supposed to take male and female animals of all kinds, his wife and family, provisions, etc. into the ship. Once ship was completed the rain began falling intensely. The rain fell for six days and nights. Finally things calmed and the ship settled on the top of Mount Nisir. After the ship had rested for seven days Utnapishtim let loose a dove. Since the land had not dried the dove returned. Next he sent a swallow which also returned. Later he let loose a raven which never returned since the ground had dried. Utnapishtim then left the ship.

Chaldean
There was a man by the name of Xisuthrus. The god Chronos warned Xisuthrus of a coming flood and told him to build a boat. The boat was to be 5 stadia by 2 stadia. In this boat Xisuthrus was to put his family, friends and two of each animal (male and female). The flood came. When the waters started to recede he let some birds loose. They came back and he noticed they had mud on their feet. He tried again with the same results. When he tried the third time the birds did not return. Assuming the water had dried up the people got out of the boat and offered sacrifices to the gods.

India
A long time ago lived a man named Manu. Manu, while washing himself, saved a small fish from the jaws of a large fish. The fish told Manu, "If you care for me until I am full grown I will save you from terrible things to come". Manu asked what kind of terrible things. The fish told Manu that a great flood would soon come and destroy everything on the earth. The fish told Manu to put him in a clay jar for protection. The fish grew and each time he outgrew the clay jar Manu gave him a larger one. Finally the fish became a ghasha, one of the largest fish in the world. The fish instructed Manu to build a large ship since the flood was going to happen very soon. As the rains started Manu tied a rope from the ship to the ghasha. The fish guided the ship as the waters rose. The whole earth was covered by water. When the waters began subsiding the ghasha led Manu's ship to a mountaintop.

Australia
There is a legend of a flood called the Dreamtime flood. Riding on this flood was the woramba, or the Ark Gumana. In this ark was Noah, Aborigines, and various animals. This ark eventually came to rest in the plain of Djilinbadu where it can still be found. They claim that the white mans story about the ark landing in the middle east is a lie that was started to keep the aborigines in subservience. This legend is undoubtedly the product of aboriginal legends merging with those of visiting missionaries, and there does not appear to be any native flood stories from Australia.

Europe
Greece
A long time ago, perhaps before the golden age was over, humans became proud. This bothered Zeus as they kept getting worse. Finally Zeus decided that he would destroy all humans. Before he did this Prometheus, the creator of humans, warned his human son Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha. Prometheus then placed this couple in a large wooden chest. The rains started and lasted nine days and nights until the whole world was flooded. The only thing that was not flooded was the peaks of Mount Parnassus and Mount Olympus. Mount Olympus is the home of the gods. The wooden chest came to rest on Mount Parnassus. Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha got out and saw that everything was flooded. The lived on provisions from the chest until the waters subsided. At Zeus' instruction they re-populated the earth.

North America
Mexico
The Toltec natives have a legend telling that the original creation lasted for 1716 years, and was destroyed by a flood and only one family survived.

Aztec- A man named Tapi lived a long time ago. Tapi was a very pious man. The creator told Tapi to build a boat that he would live in. He was told that he should take his wife, a pair of every animal that was alive into this boat. Naturally everyone thought he was crazy. Then the rain started and the flood came. The men and animals tried to climb the mountains but the mountains became flooded as well. Finally the rain ended. Tapi decided that the water had dried up when he let a dove loose that did not return.

United States
The Ojibwe natives who have lived in Minnesota USA since approximately 1400AD also have a creation and flood story that closely paralleles the Biblical account. "There came a time when the harmonious way of life did not continue. Men and women disrespected each other, families quarreled and soon villages began arguing back and forth. This saddened Gitchie Manido [the Creator] greatly, but he waited. Finally, when it seemed there was no hope left, Creator decided to purify Mother Earth through the use of water. The water came, flooding the Earth, catching all of creation off guard. All but a few of each living thing survived." Then it tells how Waynaboozhoo survived by floating on a log in the water with various animals.
Ojibwe - Ancient native American creation story tells of world wide flood.

Delaware Indians - In the pristine age, the world lived at peace; but an evil spirit came and caused a great flood. The earth was submerged. A few persons had taken refuge on the back of a turtle, so old that his shell had collected moss. A loon flew over their heads and was entreated to dive beneath the water and bring up land. It found only a bottomless sea. Then the bird flew far away, came back with a small portion of earth in its bill, and guided the tortoise to a place where there was a spot of dry land.

South America
Inca
During the period of time called the Pachachama people became very evil. They got so busy coming up with and performing evil deeds they neglected the gods. Only those in the high Andes remained uncorrupted. Two brothers who lived in the highlands noticed their llamas acting strangely. They asked the llamas why and were told that the stars had told the llamas that a great flood was coming. This flood would destroy all the life on earth. The brothers took their families and flocks into a cave on the high mountains. It started to rain and continued for four months. As the water rose the mountain grew keeping its top above the water. Eventually the rain stopped and the waters receded. The mountain returned to its original height. The shepherds repopulated the earth. The llamas remembered the flood and that is why they prefer to live in the highland areas.

http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
10 hours - 500v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 0:50 GMT
Yes, stories, not evidence. See the creatures and gods of the Greek and Roman myths.
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
4 days - 5,621v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 4:59 GMT

Hey more scientists are coming out of the evolution closet all the time admitting that they believe the Bible is scientifically accurate. Show me some scientists that believe a Zeus god story is scientifically accurate.

http://geology.about.com/b/2007/02/12/new-geology-phd-holds-young-earth-views.htm
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
5 days - 8,032v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 6:36 GMT
"|But what he is doing is very hard, because advancing science also requires an unreasonable drive to defend a new idea. If he allows a love for Genesis to affect his ideas, then he risks repeating the losing struggle of two centuries ago, when two generations of geologists, most of them devout deists and Christians, were compelled by the evidence to put the Bible aside as a textbook of science. On the other hand, maybe he only wants to teach classes and putter among his fossils. As long as he guides his students into the current conversation, giving them the tools to join the game, he will do his profession good."
 
 
now that doesn't really sound like a prominent geologist bigdog.
 
oh, and what does this demonstrate?
NOTHING. the YEC in question STILL has to agree that the current model is better then genesis.
 
"whose doctoral thesis at the University of Rhode Island played it straight about the Cretaceous but who in his heart of hearts would rather be a creationist."
 
damm, your attemps at quotemining are getting sloppier and sloppier.
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
3 days - 4,501v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 19:31 GMT
Hey more scientists are coming out of the evolution closet all
 
Wow, all... one of them!
 
the time admitting that they believe the Bible is scientifically accurate.
 
From the link you posted:
 
"The New York Times today profiles a man, Marcus Ross, whose doctoral thesis at the University of Rhode Island played it straight about the Cretaceous but who in his heart of hearts would rather be a creationist. I think he's OK.
[...]
Marcus Ross has the potential to be an outstanding scientist because he has something that few have: detachment."
 
In other words, he's a creationist by religious conviction - but he also has the intellectual maturity not to let his religious convictions interfere with scientific inquiry.
 
Show me some scientists that believe a Zeus god story is scientifically accurate.
 
How about you show us a story about a reputable scientist who believes that the Bible is scientifically-accurate (hint: you haven't done that yet, despite trying to make it *look* like you have)? Bonus points if you can find one who thinks that the Bible is scientifically-accurate in their actual field of study.
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
3 days - 4,501v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 16:10 GMT
Here are a few flood stories.
 
Several of those pre-date Christianity and even Judaism. The more likely explanation is that those legends and myths were the inspiration for the Noah story, and not the other way around.
 
Especially since early Christians were utterly shameless about stealing concepts from competing religions (to make Christianity seem more appealing to followers of other religions). E.g. it makes for interesting reactions when you explain the actual significance of holly berries to Christians: it originally symbolized the menstrual blood of a Celtic/Druid goddess.
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
5 days - 8,032v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 6:32 GMT
"how come every culture and religion has a similar flood legend like Hovind said? there is something like 500 flood legends similar to the Bible flood."
 
BECAUSE YOU GROW YOUR CROPS NEAR BODIES OF WATER.
and those bodies can flood.
SUPRISE!
 
" so if it were to take only 25 million years to level out all the dirt into the ocean"
 
ignoring all the growth (fault lines)
 
ronnie
you are a deliberately dishonest and wilfully ignorant jackass.
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
3 days - 4,501v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 1:27 GMT
HA HA HA HA LA LA LA LA HA HA! wait i got carried away there.
 
Uncontrollable laughter is commonly a sign of mental retardation.
 
if there was no flood then how come every culture and religion has a similar flood legend like Hovind said? there is something like 500 flood legends similar to the Bible flood.
 
Most early human civilizations were in river-valleys or near other bodies of water. Rivers and lakes tend to flood from time to to time.
 
Eric Hovind makes another good point that the mountains and continets are deteriorating from rain and weather. so if it were to take only 25 million years to level out all the dirt into the ocean....lets see? 4.6 billion divided by 25 million = 160. the mountains and continents should have leveled out 160 times already. 

so the earth can't be old. LOL!
 
...an argument that makes sense only if you've never heard of plate tectonics.
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
2 hours - 62v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 6:23 GMT
it is impossible say how old the earth is accurately. Even for scientists at this rate for the changing of their theories the earth is aging 40 years a minute.
And even biblical theories are different. Some say 6000 others 4000 and so on.
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
5 days - 8,032v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 6:38 GMT
"it is impossible say how old the earth is accurately."
 
without a margin, yes.
can we give a reasonable astimate? yes.
and that estimate is veeeery old.
 
"Even for scientists at this rate for the changing of their theories the earth is aging 40 years a minute."
 
???
can you rephrase that so it is actually readable?
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
9 hours - 765v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 14:28 GMT
Creationists are dumber than peat moss.  They should be rounded up into camps and have their organs harvested.
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
3 days - 4,501v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 16:22 GMT
it is impossible say how old the earth is accurately.
 
Although it's still possible to come up with a fairly precise estimate.
 
Even for scientists at this rate for the changing of their theories the earth is aging 40 years a minute.
 
Can you actually substantiate that claim, or did you just copy-paste it from a list of Creationist talking points?
 
And Contrary to your attempt to paint it as a weakness, the ability/willingness to adjust theories in the face of new data is one of the greatest strengths of science. It's also one of the key ways that the scientific mindset differs from the mindset of religious fundamentalists/fanatics.
 
And even biblical theories are different. Some say 6000 others 4000 and so on.
 
Wow. That's a pretty big margin of error for the infallible word of the one, true God.
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
10 hours - 500v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 14:48 GMT
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
5 days - 8,032v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 16:29 GMT
BOOOM!
headshot...=D
 
that creation minute is so ignorant....it's just........well, you'd have to be retarded (or severly brainwashed) to buy it.
YES, i am claiming that anyone who bought erics "evidence" for his conclusion either retareded or severly brainwashed.
the vid corey posted backs up that insult.
 
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
4 days - 5,621v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 16:44 GMT

1. Tree rings can produce more than 2 rings a year
2. There is no actual evidence that the ort cloud is producing comets. It�s made up.
3. The sahara desert is growing but, "so what?" Weak come back.

Need I go on?
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
10 hours - 500v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 18:38 GMT
Tree rings can produce more than 2 rings a year.
 
There also can produce missing rings and dating method is well founded.
 
 
And what about the King's clone mentioned in the video?
 
There is no actual evidence that the ort (sic) cloud is producing comets
 
Do you have any evidence that suggests that the Oort cloud does not?
 
 
The sahara desert is growing but, "so what?" Weak come back.
 
What does the age of the Sahara Desert have to do with the age of the earth? Is it the oldest desert? No, the Namib Desert is much older.
 
 
See, how the arguments failed.
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
5 days - 8,032v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 19:48 GMT
"Do you have any evidence that suggests that the Oort cloud does not?"
 
lets not try to fall into fallacies, you can't prove a negative.
 
but the point is still that bigdog is horribly ignorant on what the oort cloud is and where comets come from.
hint* it ain't storks...*
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
10 hours - 500v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 23:22 GMT
Sorry, I get frustrated when people are not willing to understand.
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
3 days - 4,501v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 17:22 GMT
"Do you have any evidence that suggests that the Oort cloud does not?"

lets not try to fall into fallacies, you can't prove a negative.
 
It's a semantic quibble, but I didn't get the impression that Corey was asking for proof of a negative. Rather, it appears that he's asking for evidence that comets originate from somewhere other than the Oort cloud.
 
but the point is still that bigdog is horribly ignorant on what the oort cloud is and where comets come from.
hint* it ain't storks...*
 
I believe the standard creationist response would be "God faked it to test our faith" or "the Devil faked it to lead us away from God."
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
5 days - 8,032v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 19:46 GMT
"
1. Tree rings can produce more than 2 rings a year"
 
do they always do that? no
do we know when they do that? yes.
did the soil layers indicate those conditions? or the ring structures? no
 
pwned.
 
"2. There is no actual evidence that the ort cloud is producing comets."
 
perhaps because it's made of comets?
ever heard of al those planetiod out there beyond neptune? like pluto, charon ect.
 
"3. The sahara desert is growing but, "so what?" Weak come back."
 
so what?
WHAT does the growth of the sahara have to do with an old earth?
the climate is constantly changing, and the geographic rigion of the sahara has experienced numerous types of climates.
 
"the sahara is growing"
 
SO WHAT?
 
"Need I go on?"
 
yes, please go on posting fallacies or half truths like they are some kind of silver bullet that proves your point when you can't even explain how they do.
you're inability to incorporate these "points" into a coherent and thorough argument speaks volumes as to what you know on any of these natural subjects.
 
 
 
 
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
10 hours - 500v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 23:32 GMT
Slide from Kent Hovind's Age Of The Earth on the Bristlecone Pine:
 
 
Note the web address at the bottom. It is hard to read from the image, so the link is below:
 
 
The web page references Prometheus, not Methuselah, hence the term "Martyr" as it was cut down and is older than Methuselah.
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Re: How Old is the Earth?
1 day - 2,617v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 4:28 GMT
hey dog here's a quote from wiki for ya:

Although no confirmed direct observations of the Oort cloud have been made, astronomers believe...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oort_cloud

sounds like faith to me.
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
5 days - 8,032v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 7:31 GMT
"hey dog here's a quote from wiki for ya:

Although no confirmed direct observations of the Oort cloud have been made, astronomers believe..."
 
they have a formation model, along with many observations of plaetiods or comets beyond neptune.
 
what do you have?
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
3 days - 4,501v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 16:52 GMT
Although no confirmed direct observations of the Oort cloud have been made, astronomers believe...
 
The difference is that astronomers usually have enough intellectual maturity to recognize those beliefs as provisional (unlike Creationists and other religious fanatics).
 
Really, ronnie, astronomy is just about the WORST possible example you could pick - if it were up to people like you, astronomy would still be clinging with the Ptolemaic/geocentric model. For that matter, even today there are still some Christians who cling to geocentrism despite all of the evidence to the contrary:
 
 
sounds like faith to me.
 
It truly is hilarious to see fundamentalist Christians try to use the word "faith" as an accusation. Is there some sort of epidemic of neurotic self-hatred that only effects Creationists?
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
3 days - 4,501v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 15:12 GMT
2. There is no actual evidence that the ort cloud is producing comets.
 
Ah, so you have a theory of an alternative origin for comets? I didn't realize you were a professional astronomer.
 
By all means, please elaborate on your theory (this should be interesting).
 
It�s made up.
 
In bigdog's world, debunking a theory doesn't require you to perform research, present counter evidence, or form arguments of any substance. Nope, just saying "It's made up" it sufficient to invalidate reams of theoretical and research data.
 
3. The sahara desert is growing but, "so what?" Weak come back.
 
And? The point was irrelevant to begin with - the Sahara's expansion doesn't even have any bearing on the age of Earth, let much less provide evidence in support of young Earth creationism.
 
Need I go on?
 
Probably not, you've made yourself look stupid enough for one day.
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
1 day - 2,617v
Posted 2010/03/25 - 12:42 GMT
sure totally dismiss any evidence you don't like. do you think you've really convinced anyone here? and don't get mad at bigdog just cause your some loser old geezer who can't convince anyone into your perverted views. your the idiot here 24/7 waisting his life.
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
10 hours - 500v
Posted 2010/03/25 - 13:32 GMT
The Truth Hurts.
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
3 days - 4,501v
Posted 2010/03/26 - 1:34 GMT
sure totally dismiss any evidence you don't like.
 
...writes ronnie, in a post where he fails to address even ONE SINGLE point made in the post he's replying to.
 
and don't get mad at bigdog just cause your some loser old geezer who can't convince anyone
 
Awww, someone sounds cranky. Did 'lil ronnie get a jealous and attention-starved when Mikey was here?
 
into your perverted views.
 
It's obvious that you and bigdog just desperately want to pull out that other "P" word you're both so fond of, but you just don't have the guts to do it. What's wrong, did mommy take away your computer privileges last time?
 
your the idiot here 24/7 waisting his life.
 
There's nothing I could write that would make you look any dumber than that sentence already does.
» Reply to Comment
Re: How Old is the Earth?
5 days - 8,032v
Posted 2010/03/26 - 12:30 GMT
"sure totally dismiss any evidence you don't like."
 
eh, we rubuted that "evidence".
it turned out not to support the position at all.
 
"do you think you've really convinced anyone here?"
 
if you still think the age of the sahara and the age of trees somehow force them to be there from the beginning.
or that you think 10 000 years of tree rings are actually 6000 tears.
or that it ISN"T a likely that people write stories about floods when they live next to bodies of water.
 
well, then you are quite...sad.
 
"and don't get mad at bigdog just cause your some loser old geezer who can't convince anyone into your perverted views."
 
wow. who didn't we convince? you?
or all the lurkers who aren't responding?
 
"your the idiot here 24/7 waisting his life."
 
and yet i study to produce medecines, foods, and chemicals. funny.


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