"The aspects of the bible being written by men and being tampered with are probably true, but that doesn't take away from it's doctrinal value. It's important to understand that the bible is a book of teachings and doctrines that are for the believer, not the non believer. Since the bible was written by men, whether inspired or not, we cannot take the bible at face value. Same holds true for books of every line of belief.'

 

and so the creation story must be take literaly BECAUSE?!

 

"I don't understand the scrutiny from someone who doesn't even believe in the bible, to chastise it's doctrines."

 

plenty of non litaralist christains also do so,

or do you expect us not to take Exodus 21 at face value?

 

"Anyone who has read the bible understands that most of the claims made in this video are not true."

 

do you want us to actuall give you the verses?

 

"  As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace.  If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor.  But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town.  When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town.  But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder.  You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.'

 

"  Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house.  I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor.  He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight.  You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'     Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord."  Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die.  But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.""

 

"   When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.   (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)"

 

"21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21:21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

 

"21:26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. 21:27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

 

incest:

who did Cain and Abel bang?

and

"

Lot was a just and righteous man.

And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 2 Peter 2:7-8

He was the only man that God saved from the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.

...the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. Genesis 19:15

He got drunk and impregnated his virgin daughters.

Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. Genesis 19:32-36'
"I also will do this unto you... You shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it." -- Leviticus 26:16 "And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." -- Leviticus 26:29 "And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters." -- Deuteronomy 28:53 "And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them." -- Deuteronomy 28:57 "Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm." -- Isaiah 9:19-20 "And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine." -- Isaiah 49:26 "And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend." -- Jeremiah 19:9 "Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers." -- Ezekiel 5:10"
"This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him." 2 Kings 6:28-29"
now some of these might be out of context. but we all know fundies don't give a dam about espceially not when you quote dawrwin or gould.
"but never condones them."
it doesn't condem these cases either.
"the objective was placed against the principles of dishonoring the sabbath and unruly behavior."
but the penalty is STILL death..
"don't discipline your teenager"read "don't STONE your teenager"


" to date, has correlated entirely with history."
AGAIN
 NO IT DOESN'T, how can you even claim this with certainty when you yourself say :
"I submit, at this point, I haven't done a lot of research in some aspects of exactly how valid the bible is,"
again i'll ask, WHERE ARE THE CONTEPORARY RECORDS OF THE RESSURECTION, water walking, ect..?
" There are no points in the bible that have been proven wrong,"
horse shit.

Isaiah 11:12 
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV) 

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV) 

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV) 

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV) 

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV) "

why the hell didn't they use the word horizon?!

Proverbs 8

    27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
       when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

and YES i could go on...

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.  (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.   (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"

"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble.  (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)"

"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand.  (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)"

"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?  (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"

"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth.  (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"

"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens.  (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"

"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea.  (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"

and to cut you off

"There is one verse in the OT, however, which has often been cited at least by laymen as a proof that the earth was understood to be a globe.  I refer to Isaiah 40:22 which speaks of God as the One sitting above the circle of the earth.   This verse does imply that the earth is circular, but there is nothing either in the underlying Hebrew word (hug) or in the context which necessarily implies anything more than the circularity of the flat earth-disc which the historical context and Genesis 1 have given us as the meaning of.  If Isaiah had intended to speak of the earth as a globe, he would probably have used the word he used in 22:18 (dur), meaning 'ball.' "

 

well....hf

"I will do a bit of research and then will rebuttal."

 

"that you literally have to learn everything just to be able to defend your faith."

(and this is BAD because?!)

 

*ahh back in the good old days you could just have beleived anything and people would care if it was right.....*

 

no, that is NOT how the world works.

 

 

"Ok, other than the fact that no aspect of the bible has been proven wrong and that it has only been found to correlate with history,"

 

we just show you is't not, and better then that, it's not even internally consistent. how can you still claim otherwise.

 

"alien position does not have a preconceived idea about what the bible offers."

 

sooooo..... the book thats supposed to convince us, doesn't convince us unless we already believe?

 

"The bible is a compilation of an interpretation of the Torah, with stories and teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ, celebrating salvation from the suffering and death of this life and ultimately, eternal separation from god."

 

*continue;

"which was compiled in 325 in the roman counsil of Nicaea by roman priests, and by a vote of hands. so many OTHER documents and gospels regardign christ have been cencored, lost or destroyed, so they would end up threathing the specific popular compilation we now know as the bible.

 

the roman priest ALSO did a good job at intergrating various aspects of other religions (like isis cult, mithras) into the christian faith, so as to make it easier or more attractive to convert the pagans. not only that, they specifically chose to put forth a pro-roman sentiment, and a clear anti jewish sentiment. this again was to make it more politically correct for the roman citizens and the emipre, and allowed them to finally and completely split from their jewish roots, contending they where NOT to be associated to teh rebelious and anti-roman jews."

 

"But what should be taken seriously, is that the bible was derived from the Torah, the jewish book, which later become the old testament to the Christians, and that the accounts and stories given are apart of a larger account of the origin of the universe, life and humanity, history, morality, life and death and man's reconciliation with god."'

 

and the torah was what? that's right, a compilation of oral tradition written down by... MEN....

and we ALL know what happens to oral traditions....

 

" but is a doctrinal reference, which was divinely inspired and found to be held infallible."

 

first, you jsut admitted it was NOT to be regarded infallable, since it WAS written by men, men who had little idea of the natural world i might add.

second of all, even IF is was "found to be HELD infallable", that DOESN"T mean it IS infallable.

whether or not is IS infallable, is up to the conclusion drawn form carefull study of the factual, historical and internal consitancy of the written records.

 

and we all know that doesn't favor a infallible position.

 

"

 

you DO know, that this guy isn't really supporing either of the religions.

might be smart next time to link someone who actualy supports you postition.

 

"The book, as with all books, is completely and utterly useless, without faith in your growing spirituality."

 

THEN WHY THE HELL TAKE THE STORIES IN IT LITERAL!?

 

"What is important is to read the bible with a grasp of learning, while nuturing your relationship with the lord. That is what it is all about."

 

again, WHY THE HELL TAKE THE STORIES LITERALLY?!

why not graps the deeper methaphorical meanings!?

 

"Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.""

 

w8...WHAT? now WHO was pointing fun at us by saying ToE said we came from a ROCK?!

 

"for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him"

 

so w8...god is narcisistic?

wow....

There is no substantial evidence to the contrary. And actually, the earth professes a young age.

 

As far as your god idea, no one forces anyone to believe in god. The parents may force you to go to church, lord forbid, but when it comes to god, everyone makes up their own minds. You are entertaining illusions, you sap. I read the bible with my kids and tell them about god and that god is the creator of the universe and that he saved us from our sins. This is good, not bad. If it were up to you, you would remove god even from behind closed doors, forbidding us to practice our spirituallity with our kids.

 

Well, this will not happen. I will teach anyone interested in god and salvation, I will teach my kids, even my grandchildren, because I believe it and it is a well founded, substantial, truthful belief.

 

You teach your children they share a common heritage with worms, and have a commonwealth with apes. I will teach my kids that humanity is the lord's vindicated creation, We were made in his image, we are in his family, we are his friends and we will spend eternity with him.

 

And of course that the bible is consistent with all science.

"Bible + blind acceptance = conclusion."

 

 

no actuallt we accuse them, and they say so themselves of going

"bible= conclusion thefore,

the flood happened NOW lets fins soem evidence for that"

 

which is not the way do science, let alone reason.

 

"Bible + blind acceptance = conclusion."

 

vapor canopy any1?

 

"In the minds of the foolish"

 

certainly in the hovind universe

 

"Bible + consistent observation + consistent testing = conclusion."

 

you wish.

EVERY piece of "creastion science"{ in nothign more then apologetics. why take on the parts of science that colflict with the bible? why not take on atomic theory, or the theory of general relativity?

NOOOO

it MUST be the part of science that contradict your literal interpretation.

 

"In the minds of the creationists, this is what takes place."

 

then how on EARTH, can they come up with conclusions like, vapor canopy, ice shell, super evolution, light accelaration, ect, ect..

IT BOGGLE THE MIND.

ALL these hypothesi are proposed with 1 SOLE reason, to see how the earth could be 6000 years old. IT"S conclusion-> evidence.

NOT evidence-> conlcusion.

 

" we observe that everything in nature professes a worldwide flood,"

 

but it doesn't.

how can you STILL not see that?

the simpel reason make it bunk BEFORE we even get into the real stuff.

the fossil recors. specifically laid down strata, stars that are billions of light years away, genetic variety in humans alone, fossil fuel reservoirs that take lots of time and biomass to form.....you're ignorign ALL this observable fact...just so "the bible is correct".

 

the scope of intelectual dishonesty....just leaves me speechless...

 

"we test it"

 

even THAT you do not do,

remember hovind pot of mud and hydrolic sorting? do that experiment with 6 different sediments.

 

shake one yar,

and deposit the layers one at a time in the other.

then compare to observable reality.

 

"These individuals are doing nothing but blindly attacking the bible."

 

what else does "creation science" have behind it? nothing. only the bible.

 

"They are not christians,"

Ken Millr isn't a christian? O RLY?

no dice.

you're just callign everyone that doesn't agree with you a "non chrisitan"

 

"but still insist on meddling in affairs that are not theres."

WRONG. when you offer this up for schools IT BECOMES our affair.

and when it fails to pass even the most basic of scrutiny, it dies in science, and in society.

 

" It is for christians, not critics."

 

if THAT is you atitude when discussing creation "science' then you have no right at adding that "science" suffix.

 

 

"You presume to read aspects of the bible and say, "Ah, ok, I don't believe in the bible, therefore there are no valid points in it"."
- Yet we have said this again and again. THE BIBLE IS A GOOD SOURCE OF MORALS AND METAPHORICAL STORIES! NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS.

"These individuals are doing nothing but blindly attacking the bible. They are not christians, but still insist on meddling in affairs that are not theres. It is for christians, not critics."
- Then why are you attacking our science? We leave you alone when you stop spamming strawmens and saying "creation science". I am a scientist, not a priest. I correct, i test, i evaluate and research. That is what i do and for you to come here to say i have to stop meddling in affairs that is not mine when you clearly attack science is just mindscrambling! Go back to church and leave science alone. The only reason why we attack your bible is to show, scientifically, that god did NOT make all life as it is today. When you use it as a source and fact we have to review it and criticise it for what is wrong and right.