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-Humanism-
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-Humanistic society pushing thought conditioning-
Submitted By 9tails on 09/03/01
FreeHovind, 9tails, Discussions 

We identify that the Atheistic agenda to remove god from every aspect of communal state. Even though unscientific and unscriptual, the humanistic community insists on its indoctrination ruling institution. They also insist on dividing evolution into seperate isolated aspects. The popular structure isolates "Biological" evolution from other incorporated fields in an attempt to infest all aspects of science with infiltration and make any opposing view appear as though that view is attacking science and is against science.
 
 we need to establish what we mean by "evolution". Most believers in evolution are keen to strictly refer to biological evolution, which incorporates variant speciation of macroevolution and variations within kinds over time due to adaptation and reproduction or microevolution.

"Macroevolution is a scale of analysis of evolution in separated gene pools. Macroevolutionary studies focus on change that occurs at or above the level of species, in contrast with microevolution, which refers to smaller evolutionary changes (typically described as changes in allele frequencies) within a species or population."

Unobserved in science, observed speciatation has occured only by means of microevolution.

"Microevolution is the occurrence of small-scale changes in allele frequencies in a population, over a few generations, also known as change at or below the species level, due to mutation, natural selection, artificial selection, gene flow or genetic drift."

Observed in science, called abeomutosis in baraminology.
 
The inherit list of implied evolution are as follows:
 
-Cosmic evolution-

-Chemical evolution-

-Stellar evolution-

-Organic evolution-

-Macro evolution-

-Micro evolution-   (Baraminology - Abeomutosis)
 
Though protested by evolution advocates, The evolutionary supposition extends to other fields of science as well, like cosmology, chemistry, geology and many others. The encompassed fields of evolutionary study are; "The big bang" theory, "Abiogenesis", "Geologic time table", "Stellar evolution". All of which hold hands consequentially with the theory of evolution. Isolation of these topics are a fallacy and is impossible as they all imply the other.
 
Today's intellectuals have lost this foundational understanding of the purpose of science. The very definition of 'science' has been altered from "acknowledge truths and laws, especially as demonstrated by induction, experiment, or observation" (1934 edition of Webster's New School dictionary) to "knowledge concerning the physical world and its phenomena"(1983 of Webster's Collegiate dictionary). This definition removes the idea that "truth" exists and emphasizes natural phenomena. By this modern definition God's intervention cannot even be considered because science has been defined to exclude this possibility.

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There is so much crap there it would take a l
3 days - 3,596v
Posted 2009/03/01 - 3:43 GMT
There is so much crap there it would take a long time to go through it all. Perhaps we can start with you defining what a baramin is.
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-Baraminology-
2 days - 3,021v
Posted 2009/03/01 - 3:56 GMT
-Baraminology-

(Classifications and Catagorizations of organic life)

Kinds:

"A category, family and lineage encompassing admissible varietible and distinguished members yielded from the kinds original created living entity."

Created kinds in creation biology, are organisms that share a common ancestry. The phrase was coined from the Genesis account of the creation week during which God created many kinds of organisms. They are also referred to as "kinds," "original kinds," "Genesis kinds," and more formally by creation scientists as baramin. Baraminology is a rapidly growing field of creation science involved with the identification and study of the created kinds.

In contrast to the evolutionary principle of common ancestry, creation biologists argue that all life on Earth is not related to one ultimate single-cell but that life was created in a finite number of discrete forms, which subsequently underwent speciation and massive genetic change over millions of generations.

Since created kinds refer to common ancestry they are analogous to the clade. Baraminology, or the effort to classify life according to the created kinds, is thus the creationist equivalent of cladistics.

It is very important not to confuse the "created kind" with species. Although animals like the fox and coyote might be considered different taxonomic species, they are still the same "kind" of animal. The created kind is thought to be more often synonymous with the "Family" level of classification in the taxonomic hierarchy; at least in mammals; and occasionally it can extend as high as the order level.



Baraminology:

"Classifications of living things augmenting from original created kinds exclusively concerning the science of change over time and subjective variations due to adaptation and reproduction".

Baraminology is a creationist system for classifying life into groups not related by common ancestry, called "baramins". Its methodology is founded on a literal creationist reading of "kinds" in Genesis, especially a distinction between humans and other animals. Other criteria include the ability of animals to interbreed and the similarity of their observable traits. Baraminology is a subfield of creation science. The taxonomic system widely applied in biology is Cladistics, which classifies species based on and emphasizes objective, quantitative analysis.

Baraminology is the study of the ancestry of life on Earth (biosystematics), which draws from the presupposition that God created many kinds of organisms as described in the Biblical book of Genesis. In short, it is an effort to find scientific means to determine which forms of life are related, and which are not. Creationist biosystematics enables us to more clearly view and understand relationships that might not be visible from a naturalistic perspective. Most importantly, it provides another way for us to know the Creator.

The Baraminology Study Group (BSG) has been instrumental in this area of research. The group is involved to further the development and research of this theoretical framework in creation biology within a forum of leading creation scientists in the relevant fields.

Natural kinds:

a natural kind is a grouping of things which is a natural grouping, not an artificial one. Or, it is something a set of things (objects, events, beings) has in common which distinguishes it from other things as a real set rather than as a group of things arbitrarily lumped together by a person or group of people.

If any natural kinds exist at all, good candidates for being natural kinds might include each of the chemical elements, like gold or potassium. Physical particles like quarks might also be natural kinds. That is, they would still be groups of things, distinct from other things as a group, even if there were no people around to say that they were members of the same group. The set of objects that weigh more than 50 pounds, on the other hand, almost certainly does not comprise a natural kind. A person might group those objects together for some purpose like shipping costs, but there is no particular reason that any other person should lump those objects together instead of placing them in some other grouping.

There is considerable debate in philosophy about whether there are any natural kinds at all, and if so, what they are. Philosophers of biology argue about whether biological species, like the Bald Eagle (Haliaeetus leucocephalus), are natural kinds. Others debate whether races, sexes, or sexual orientations are natural kinds. Meteorologists classify a number of different kinds of clouds, but it is not clear whether they are really different kinds, or whether those groups merely reflect the classifying interests of human beings.

A more formal definition has it that a natural kind is a family of "entities possessing properties bound by natural law; we know of natural kinds in the form of categories of minerals, plants, or animals, and we know that different human cultures classify natural realities that surround them in a completely analogous fashion"

Cultural artifacts are not generally considered natural kinds. As one author puts it, "they never stop changing, and terms that designate them constitute only what Wittgenstein called 'family resemblance predicates'" This point is more disputed; John McDowell has extensively argued that this opposition between "culture" and "nature" cannot be clearly formulated, and that in any case it ought to lead us to construing cultural products not as unnatural, but as, adopting Aristotle's terminology, a kind of "second nature."

Types of baramins:

 Holobaramin

Holobaramin (holo, from the Greek "holos" for "whole") is an entire group of living and/or extinct forms of life understood to share genetic relationship by common ancestry. It is a grouping that contains all organisms related by descent, not excluding any. For example, Humans are a holobaramin, but a group containing only Caucasians and Negroes is not a holobaramin since it excludes other races. Another example would be Canines, which is a holobaramin since wolves, coyotes, domesticated dogs and other canids are all descended from two individuals taken aboard Noah's ark, and there are no other creatures that are genetically continuous with them. This term is synonymous with the use of "baramin" above and is the primary term in baraminology.

Monobaramin

Monobaramin (mono, from the Greek for "single" or "one") is defined by Walter ReMine (1993, p. 444) as: a group containing only organisms related by common descent, but not necessarily all of them. (A group comprising one entire holobaramin or a portion thereof). It is an ad hoc group of organisms who share common descent. Caucasians and Negros are a monobaramin, as are any group of a holobaramin such as wolves, poodles, and terriers. Holobaramins contain monobaramins; for instance, wolves are a monobaramin of the Dog holobaramin.

Apobaramin

Apobaramin (apo, from the Greek for "away from") is a group consisting of the entirety of at least one holobaramin. It may contain a single holobaramin or more than one holobaramin, "but it must contain the entirety of each of the one or more holobaramins within it." (Kurt Wise, 1999–2000). A groups consisting of both Humans and Canines are apobaraminic since both members are holobaramins. The term apobaramin is a term useful especially during evaluations of two types of organisms (pairwise comparisons).

Polybaramin

A polybaramin (poly, from Greek for "many") is defined as a group consisting of part of at least two holobaramins. It may be any of numerous mixtures which could contain holobaramins, monobaramins, apobaramins, and individual specimens. It is an ad hoc group of organisms where at least two of the members must be unrelated. For example: Humans, wolves and a duck are a polybaraminic group. This term is useful for describing such hodgepodge
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ok...baramins.  
5 days - 7,615v
Posted 2009/03/01 - 12:15 GMT
ok...baramins.

 

from your description it sounds like taxonomy untill the family and then pour a large biblical souce over the entire thing.

so basically it's modern science practiced ina  pseudoscientific way on the premis of god creatign everything in the form of (taxanomical) families.
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..lol...the theroy of evolution only applyed
5 days - 7,615v
Posted 2009/03/01 - 11:22 GMT
..lol...the theroy of evolution only applyed to the deversity of life. it has NOTHING to do with the other things you mentioned.
 
evolution is used there only in the sense ot the word.
  • development: a process in which something passes by degrees to a different stage (especially a more advanced or mature stage); "the development of ...
  • (biology) the sequence of events involved in the evolutionary development of a species or taxonomic group of organisms
    wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
omg SEE they make and exception for biology O_O.
 
oh and macro evolution = mnay times micro evolution, how can you not understnad that.
since you are arguing that you can drive a care one mile in on minute, but you can;t drive him 60 miles in 1 hour.
presuming you drive it at 60mp/h
 
and OH we have observed macro evolution in fruit flies.
 
but i'll gues that you'll deny that because your idea of macro evolution goes like this.
"monkey gives birth to ape" which is just ridecules, that's not at all what macro evolution describes. look up lineas system and you'll get a better idea how new species are created and how direct it DOESN'T GO.
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So you are starting to get there. You are say
3 days - 3,596v
Posted 2009/03/01 - 13:24 GMT
So you are starting to get there. You are saying that a fox is the same kind (baramin) as a dog. Is the ass, donkey, horse, and camel the same kind? I ask because I didn't see a defination other than that they came from the same ancestor. How do you know which animal falls where?
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The popular structure isolates
3 days - 3,795v
Posted 2009/03/01 - 17:06 GMT
The popular structure isolates "Biological" evolution from other incorporated fieldsin an attempt to infest all aspects of science with infiltration a
 
"infest [...] with infiltration"? So, in other words, "infiltrate"?
 
and make any opposing view appear as though that view is attacking science and is against science.
 
I'm starting to lose track of all the random conspiracies that you and bigdog have attributed to atheism. Aren't you worried that the Illuminati and the Lizard Men will start feeling left out?
 
we need to establish what we mean by "evolution".
 
That would be a good start.
 
Most believers in evolution are keen to strictly refer to biological evolution, which incorporates variant speciation of macroevolution and variations within kinds over time due to adaptation and reproduction or microevolution.
 
Ah yes, the creationist tactic of trying to separate evolution into "micro" and "macro" varieties.
 
Unobserved in science
 
Except for the fact that it IS indirectly observed in the fossil record (E.g., nasal-drift in the fossil record of whales).
 
The inherit list of implied evolution are as follows:
[...]
 
*Sigh* You do realize that those terms all describe processes that are not the least bit similar (other than in a superficial sense), right?
 
The evolutionary supposition extends to other fields of science as well, like cosmology, chemistry, geology and many others.
 
Looks like you forgot economics - haven't you ever heard an economist refer to "evolving markets"?
 
There is no special connection between those fields, aside from the fact that they (evidently) cause fundamentalist Christians to get their panties in a knot.
 
Today's intellectuals have lost this foundational understanding of [...] By this modern definition God's intervention cannot even be considered because science has been defined to exclude this possibility.
 
That's an extraordinarily flimsy argument - which fails to take into account the possibility that OED was changed because the original definition was faulty.
 
It also begs a question that you've been asked numerous times: how can (or why should) scientists concern themselves with the supernatural - something that is fundamentally untestable and unverifiable?
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w8 a sec this "Humanist world view" sound a l
5 days - 7,615v
Posted 2009/03/01 - 21:12 GMT
w8 a sec this "Humanist world view" sound a lot like hovindistic propoganda.

do you even know what "humanism" means?

if you did you would understand that i basically emcompasses the "good" part of religion without any reference to a deity.

 

http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=StD&defl=en&q=define:humanism&ei=4_mqSa7DFsWP-Abd25jZAg&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

 

OOOH look GOOGLE REFUTES YOU!
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Is this Joe epic lol guy?
4 days - 5,601v
Posted 2009/03/01 - 22:32 GMT
Is this Joe epic lol guy?
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Who? me? i wish, who is Joe btw?
5 days - 7,615v
Posted 2009/03/01 - 23:15 GMT
Who? me?

i wish, who is Joe btw?

 

i'm just some teenage dutch kid who can point out the massive flaws in Hovind's statements with ACTUAL Highschool science.

 

but i perfer to leave the debunking to people who are a little more creative, knowledgable and articulate then me.

like

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/thunderf00t?blend=1&ob=0

http://www.youtube.com/user/potholer54?blend=3&ob=0

http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtantDodo

http://www.youtube.com/user/cdk007

http://www.youtube.com/user/AronRa

http://www.youtube.com/user/tooltime9901?blend=1&ob=0

 

and others.

 
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Hovind's conspiracy theories have made you so
1 day - 1,984v
Posted 2009/03/02 - 1:25 GMT
Hovind's conspiracy theories have made you so paranoid you think everyone has multiple accounts now. 

BTW, humanism is the reason we have modern medicine, and for that matter, America. America was founded by Deists, Atheists, and Humanists. Maybe a history lesson is in order.  If you want to see what a fundamentalist theocracy looks like, look at Afghanistan.  If you want to see an area with zero percent atheists/freethinker, check out Rwanda. Everythings great over there!
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I believe that you are what science calls bipola
4 days - 5,601v
Posted 2009/03/02 - 6:04 GMT

I believe that you are what science calls bipolar Joe. No offense, but I really do believe you need help.
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...lol that is trying to discredit him>? low and
5 days - 7,615v
Posted 2009/03/02 - 12:17 GMT
...lol that is trying to discredit him>?
low and extremely ineffecient. we aren't bloody 6th graders you can walk all over with half arguements.
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oOOh w8 a better comment.  
5 days - 7,615v
Posted 2009/03/02 - 20:51 GMT
oOOh w8 a better comment.

 

please tell me what bipolar is?


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