David's census
12 Comments - 2070 Views
Errors
Submitted By ben on 09/02/21
Ninnies
We have already gone over how the Bible in one place says God tempts David and in another Satan tempts David to take the census. And as Ben Kenobi says, "So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view."
So what about the difference in numbers?
2 Samuel 24:9
And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the
king; and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant
men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah five hundred thousand men.
1 Chronicles 21:5
And Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David.
And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and a hundred
thousand [1,100,000] men that drew sword; and Judah was four
hundred three score and ten thousand [470,000] men that drew the
sword.
And we know that it is true because it makes sense for a bronze age tribe to have a million and a half men in the army. That is larger than the active US Military but the Bible is accurate. Too bad there is no archaeological evidence to back that up. Oh yeah, God destroyed all evidence of that to test our faith.
» Reply to CommentIf there were no contradictory statements in a boo
Kent Clark (Brothertrucker)
1 day - 1,411v
Posted 2009/02/21 - 20:59 GMT
If there were no contradictory statements in a book that was written by close to 100 men over more then 3000 years that would be far better evidence of collaboration and collusion then the Bible the way it stands. Ive noticed some mistakes in your questions and answers, does that mean you dont exist?
» Reply to CommentYes you found out that I don't exist. I am si
Yes you found out that I don't exist. I am simply a figment of your imagination put her by God to test your faith.
So the Bible is flawed but it is the word of God. I guess it would be silly for me to ask if you are going to think through to the obvious conclusion to be drawn.
So you are thinking the Bible was written over 3000 years? That is interesting as well. The earliest writing would be Job (since that was before the Egypt captivity myth - I say myth as there is no evidence of that either) and that bears out since it is more polytheistic.
There is supposed to be collaboration in the Bible between the writer of each section with God. If the Bible is flawed then why use it to reject sound science?
Thank you for being honest about the Bible having errors. It is good to find Christians that are honest. It is uncommon but always good.
» Reply to CommentHere's your answer Ben. http://www.thebereans.net/
Here's your answer Ben. http://www.thebereans.net/contra-reckon.shtml
» Reply to CommentWell let's look at that answer and see if it
Well let's look at that answer and see if it logically follows.
Does it make sense for one country with such strong ties to have such divergent levels of reserves. The first would have 27% of the military as reserve forces while the other would have 6%.
What would make more sense would be in the first was rounded to a higher number after including the 12 divisions of 24000 men each. Pull that 288.000 men out and it is much closer.
Also if it were the account of reserves and active then why not have one account just be of reserves and the other just be the active. That would be logically consistant.
Then again lets look at 1 Chron 21:6 and it is clear that in that account that the census was not completed. If one is not completed then does it logically follow that it would be greater.
Also does it logically follow that the military that large could be supported in bronze age Israel? The answer to that is obviously no.
» Reply to CommentThey are just simple different counting procedures
They are just simple different counting procedures by the authors. Some may be rounded numbers.
» Reply to CommentOr perhaps they were made up numbers. When Xe
Or perhaps they were made up numbers. When Xerses marched on Greece he had an army of 200,000.
Israel couldn't provide food and water for an army that size.
» Reply to CommentWhat? If igave you, Ben, Isabella, 100 orange
What? If i gave you, Ben, and Isabella 100 oranges i sincerely doubt that you would all get wildly different numbers based on "different counting procedures"
» Reply to CommentHow big was that army?
How big was that army?
Let us look at the numbers in perspective. Since the Hebrews had God let's compare them to the Roman Empire. Sure Rome had more resources to call upon to build an army and to outfit, feed, and transport it but God could have done that.
So how big was the Roman army? Well a legion was 6000 men. During peace, there were 4 legions so normally there was 24000 men. Obviously during war it was larger. It would be 28 legions (168000 men) until clades Variana when it was dropped to 25 legions (150000 men). Funny that the Romans were able to control all of the Western World with those men (and the actual numbers were smaller due to losses in battle).
The largest the military ever got under the Roman Empire (including Navy and other branches) was 400000 men. The army of Judah was larger than the Roman Military when the Empire was split and that was the smaller of the two armies.
» Reply to CommentThe obvious conclusion Ben is that the Bible is th
The obvious conclusion Ben is that the Bible is the word of God. That does not mean that people like you and me did not make mistakes in relating the message. Again if I were working on a translation and were to insert a mistake you could not conclude from that that there is no God or that He makes mistakes. All that would indicate would be that I made a mistake and He didnt strike me dead in my tracks.
» Reply to CommentThis may help you guys. See his website after you
This may help you guys. See his website after you read.'by abuGian'
"The units of measurement or time in the last 4,000 years have gone through a lot of changes through the course of history, therefore, the passages involving these measurements are best reconciled by understanding how they were measured in the past and by comparing it to the present. I must admit though, that most of the confusion in these passages are really interpretational errors by skeptics who can’t seem to understand the English which they fluently speak or those who do not understand the background behind the passages which they allege to be contradictory. We could have included these passages as misunderstood in context instead they were included here because it is in their “numerical” contents that the skeptics got confused in reckoning. It is also important to remember that these numerical “discrepancies” do not affect the major Christian doctrines, involving Sin and Salvation, our understanding of the attributes of God, etc. Finally, the common “contradictory” pairs are usually found in these books:
(2 Samuel vs. 1 Chronicles)
(1 Kings or 2 Kings vs. 2 Chronicles)
(Ezra vs. Nehemiah).
To clear them up see all the answers here:
http://www.thebereans.net/contra-reckon.shtml
"The units of measurement or time in the last 4,000 years have gone through a lot of changes through the course of history, therefore, the passages involving these measurements are best reconciled by understanding how they were measured in the past and by comparing it to the present. I must admit though, that most of the confusion in these passages are really interpretational errors by skeptics who can’t seem to understand the English which they fluently speak or those who do not understand the background behind the passages which they allege to be contradictory. We could have included these passages as misunderstood in context instead they were included here because it is in their “numerical” contents that the skeptics got confused in reckoning. It is also important to remember that these numerical “discrepancies” do not affect the major Christian doctrines, involving Sin and Salvation, our understanding of the attributes of God, etc. Finally, the common “contradictory” pairs are usually found in these books:
(2 Samuel vs. 1 Chronicles)
(1 Kings or 2 Kings vs. 2 Chronicles)
(Ezra vs. Nehemiah).
To clear them up see all the answers here:
http://www.thebereans.net/contra-reckon.shtml
» Reply to CommentSo they basically say, "its not a contradicti
So they basically say, "its not a contradiction because its in the bible, and the bible is the word of god. i know its the word of God becasue the bible says so"
Circular arguments don't hold up amongst rational thinkers, sorry bigdog.
» Reply to CommentI never saw Big Dog say anything like that joe and
I never saw Big Dog say anything like that joe and I certainly never.
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