FreeHovind - taking of them Bible goggles

taking of them Bible goggles

25 Comments - 3527 Views

Submitted By thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/03/02

FreeHovind, thebiblewascompiledin325AD, Discussions

say i was wondering.

after seeing all the delusional fudementalists here the quetion that came to my mind was this:

is it possible for a fundementalist to "take of his (heavily shaded) "bible" glasses"?

since otherwise the only reason we rationalst are posting here is only to show inpressionable people the true side of creationism. which is still a reason in it's own right, but if we were able to open up some people's eyes, it would be so much more whorthwile.

so fundies, GO ON AND POST YOUR REPLY!!

» Reply to Discussion Threaded Hybrid Flat 25 Replies

9tails

2 days - 3,026v

Posted 2009/03/02 - 5:10 GMT

Every unbiased person and truth seeker will find creation to be true. There is no need for "bible goggles" to lock ones mind on basic science, it is observed regularly.

I have resolved to understand aggressive evolution zealots, are not really looking for an answer to their questions, evidence for creation or refute against evolution.

Evolution is the theory that systematically removes god. That is why it is favored and idolized. There is not a shred of evidence for it, but it is exerted because it contradicts scripture and every incorporated factor of scripture. Alas, it is a lost cause as the gospel will inevitabley reach the four corners of the earth and when time comes to an end, everyone will stand before god to face judgement.

Sci Borg (doctorofscience)

3 days - 4,498v

Posted 2009/03/02 - 20:10 GMT

Every unbiased person and truth seeker will find creation to be true.

Only if you redefine "unbiased person and truth seeker" to mean "dogmatic follower of the American brand of fundamentalist Christianity."

I have resolved to understand aggressive evolution zealots, are not
really looking for an answer to their questions, evidence for creation
or refute against evolution.

Agressive evolution zealots? Meaning people who can't actually address any of the evidence against their pre-conceived beliefs - so instead they resort to cheap debate tactics, deliberate/feigned ignorance, and tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories? Oh wait, that's creationists I'm thinking of - mea culpa.

Evolution is the theory that systematically removes god. That is why it is favored and idolized.

And how do you reconcile that with the fact that the majority of Christians do accept evolution? I know I've asked previously, but so far you haven't bothered answering.

There is not a shred of evidence for it,

Actually there is plenty of evidence in favour of the theory of evolution. Believe it or not, the theory of evolution is a little different from the simplistic strawman claims that you continually make about "evolutionist" beliefs ("we came from goo and a monkey trillions of years ago").

A short summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_for_evolution

thebiblewascompiledin325AD

5 days - 8,032v

Posted 2009/03/02 - 10:06 GMT

that's all nice and good (or malevolent)

but will you please take of them goggles, or try, or tell me why you can't.

thebiblewascompiledin325AD

5 days - 8,032v

Posted 2009/03/02 - 13:18 GMT

or is that a to agressive of a request for you?

maby i should put it the way the bible puts it.
"if you don't agree with me i'll kill you"

not sure which passage says that but i'm sure someone can tell me. *edit here it is: "If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die." -- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5

bigdog

4 days - 5,621v

Posted 2009/03/03 - 3:36 GMT

We are now under a grace period. Man can do as he pleases. But GOD does demand repentance. Because, yes, there is Heaven and Hell. I don't wish that on anybody, but it's easy to avoid if we just accept Christ.

thebiblewascompiledin325AD

5 days - 8,032v

Posted 2009/03/03 - 8:31 GMT

what about Krishna, Allah or Buddah?

Kent Clark (Brothertrucker)

1 day - 1,411v

Posted 2009/03/17 - 1:53 GMT

Well 2 of them died before Christ and the other one thought he was Christ. And Ben Im about as much a fundamentalist as you are a rationalist so I havent posted till now. You need to be less specific about who can answer your Questions.

thebiblewascompiledin325AD

5 days - 8,032v

Posted 2009/03/18 - 15:59 GMT

w8 whaaat? if you are repleying to me.

DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO ALLAH IS?!

you even know the basic thing about the buddah? like..REINCARNATION

and then we have krishna, who is on an entirely different level than your one true god, namely hinduism -_-.

the point is that your assert that the CHRISTIAN god must be the only god in existence (one true god). while a myriad of other deities are also claimed to be the one and only, or in a polytheistic case, one of the many.

Silas (Renza)

40 minutes - 25v

Posted 2010/04/06 - 13:40 GMT

Goggles? hmm, personally I choose to fear God over men and their opinions.

People are free to think what they will but it is possible that God will judge evryone by His Word. It is also possible that evrything will simply pass away because we know by the laws of physics that nothing last forever, nothing physical anyway, and nothing will happen.

That leaves the debate up to what is considered spiritual and that is something we just don't know for certain and that leaves it all up to faith weather it is faith in God or faith in some theory dreamed up by men. In my experience men, or women, simply cannot be trusted to be honest all the time and rarely most of the time.

Also from what I have studied the teaching of evolution is nothing more than a way of denying the Creator and thus denying judgment and is rooted and grows out of the fear of death.

So people choose the theory as an alternative to obedience so they can follow their own lusts and live in denial, all the while deep inside people are really hoping the judgment isn't true but they just don't know for certain. When it comes down to it what people really hate is this simple truth;

Joh 3:19-21 ESV And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. (20) For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. (21) But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God."

That leaves one of two choices in everything, accept the Creator or deny Him. We have chosen to accept Him and live in peace without fear of death or judgemnt because Christ Jesus took that judgment on on our behalf, such is the necessity of faith.

People can argue all day long but that will not change what we have seen and testify about, that being grace through faith. You think we are wearing rose colored glasses but the truth is we we have simply been convinced that God is and He is the creator of all things and with out him nothing exists.

So we fear God not death, and we beleive in the only begotten Son of God, Christ Jesus who paid the penalty of our rebellion against the Creator. The good news is that we are free because of our slavery to the King of kings and our hope is secure.

Free from what? Free from fear of men, free from the fear of death, and free from the accusations of men and Satan. We serve Christ not men because there is peace within regardless of the turmoil without.

Christians need to stop debating all these worldly ideals and start loving one another as Christ commanded, start living in obediance by the grace by which they have been saved from judgment, and start living the very Gospel they preach. Yes, the theories that attack my God and King anger me, but vengance belongs to God not me, my job and duty is to deliver the same grace in word and deed that I have but in deed above words.

What the the anti-Christians fear is that vengance. And I pitty you and pray for you.

thebiblewascompiledin325AD

5 days - 8,032v

Posted 2010/04/07 - 10:52 GMT

"I choose to fear God"

fear which god exactly?

(reversed pascals wager)

"weather it is faith in God or faith in some theory dreamed up by men."

science only works on evidence.

homologous genesare evidence.

comparative morphology is evidence.

quantitative genetics is evidence.

ect ect.

"In my experience men, or women, simply cannot be trusted to be honest all the time and rarely most of the time."

relevent how? when you want to find something out if somethign is true about this universe...what do you gain by lying?

"Also from what I have studied the teaching of evolution is nothing more than a way of denying the Creator and thus denying judgment and is rooted and grows out of the fear of death."

guess you won't be gettign in on any microbiology metabolic engineering...or any other field of biology.

"So people choose the theory as an alternative to obedience so they can follow their own lusts and live in denial,"

denial of what?

an unsubstatiated claim? or should i also believe in that invisable gnome on your shoulder? "just to be on the safe side".

"When it comes down to it what people really hate is this simple truth;"

aah yes scripture. ever read any other holy books besides the bible?

"We have chosen to accept Him and live in peace without fear of death or judgemnt because Christ Jesus took that judgment on on our behalf, such is the necessity of faith."

are you also spared form krishna's wrath? or odin's?

"People can argue all day long but that will not change what we have seen and testify about, that being grace through faith."

personal testemonies are not persuasive. i cannot see into your head.

" You think we are wearing rose colored glasses"

oh, there is NOTHING rosy about bible glasses.

in fact i'd describe then as spiked and blackened out, with an etched picture of jezus on the inside.

these glasses are a bad thing because they limit your understanding.

"So we fear God not death,"

and i fear death because?

what part about atheism (which is actually what you are adressing, not the lack of dogma, which the glasses are referring too) makes death something to be feared?

you only live once, yet you're still gonna die and then it's all over.

all you should fear is wasting what precious life you have. why should we fear the thing that gives life value?

"rebellion against the Creator."

a rebellion he saw coming in advance, he allowed to happen and he already tried to quell, but failed (perfect god?).

"The good news is that we are free because of our slavery to the King of kings and our hope is secure."

no you are NOT. why? because you are still a slave to his commands, if you want salvation.

"Christians need to stop debating all these worldly ideals and start loving one another as Christ commanded"

and start stoning witches like jaweh commands. Exodus 22:17

"the theories that attack my God and King anger me"

great to see you want to limit god to your little book.

that's idolatry for you.

"fear is that vengance"

fear something that doesn't exist....mmmmmm

"And I pitty you and pray for you."

and i pity your life in the shackles. i'll do my dam hardest to unvcover a little more about this universe and teach that to your kids so they become better at understanding and manipulating the world around them. instead of limiting god to one specific narrative in one specific family of books.

Silas (Renza)

40 minutes - 25v

Posted 2010/04/07 - 13:25 GMT

Still nothing more than one opinion against another. One ideal or faith against another. One philosophy against another.

Everyone is free to belive whatever they will, you or I cannot change that no matter how we word our thoughts and opinions or the sorces we use.

The facts remain that some choose Christ and reject evolution theory, and others choose the latter and reject Christ. Your comments and arguments are vain and we waste allot of time in life like this.

So I think Solomon was right on his conclusions and I choose a simple quiet life of enjoying the fruits of my labor. If I choose obedience to the Creator God Almighty, what is that to you? What do you care? If I choose simplicity over the stress of so called higher education, what is that to you?

What are you so afraid of that you attack Christians and The Bible so much? If I choose freely what to think or beleive based on what I have seen and experienced in real life then I see just fine as far as opinions go, and weather I am right or wrong should be inconsequential to you.

Weather you are right or wrong is certainly inconsequential to me. What you think has no effect on my past, present, or furture.

My answer was to help Christians think on the Gospel not the scoffing from athieists or whatever people call themselves. On that note, people that continue to scoff so loudly and so often do a very good job of prooving the truth of The Bible.

2Pe 3:3-4 KJV Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

No I won't be getting any kind of scietific engeneering jobs, that's not my bag and it's pretty much a vain pursuit of wealth and security, and a waste of money anyway. People put themselves in debt for prestige. That is the same reason I won't go to seminary, it will put me in debt, and for what? To debate against fellow Christians over doctrine? It's Vanity.

I would rather plant vegetables and raise cows and goats, help people fix their houses, and share my produce with someone who is in need. But I am also wise enough to know that kind of life is not for everyone, it is simply my choice.

Perhaps if your going to read the Old Testiment so much, try reading Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, it is an interesting study.

Corey S. (cms13ca)

10 hours - 500v

Posted 2010/04/07 - 17:10 GMT

We care that you choose ignorance rather than knowledge. Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into the pit?

You are no more a scoffer than anybody else by not understanding what evolution is. Try reading a science book to understand evolution.

Silas (Renza)

40 minutes - 25v

Posted 2010/04/07 - 21:10 GMT

Well Corey, for one you are on a Christian web forum attacking Christians who disagree with your opinion about what boils down to nothing more than a philosophy.

Two, we have read the science books and we do understand what evolution theory is which is why we reject it.

Many Christians were once evolutionists, witches, drug adicts etc. They don't reject such teaching for no reason but ignorance.

You make your statment as if you know my life and all I have studied and been invovled with. If our choice bothers you walk away and try to find security in your own faith or philosophy. It's pretty clear we are secure in ours.

If you are offended by the scripture there is a little "x" at the top right of the screen, just click it. Because in a site like this your going to read allot about Jesus Christ and the Gospel. Besides, acording to the Bible passage that I pasted in, the scoffers are those who deny God and the creation.

2Pe 3:3-7 KJV Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. (5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

You simply choose to reject the scripture the same as we choose to reject evolution theory. The argument, weather by people with doctorates on both sides, or common folk is still nothing more than one faith against another, one belief against another, one opinion against another. It is as simple as that.

If you don't like the Christian opinion or choice, go to a secular web forum.

thebiblewascompiledin325AD

5 days - 8,032v

Posted 2010/04/08 - 12:10 GMT

"who disagree with your opinion about what boils down to nothing more than a philosophy."

gene homolgy is NOT PHILOSOPHY.

you have no idea what ToE is, or what we use it for.

"Two, we have read the science books and we do understand what evolution theory is which is why we reject it."

yet in the offered critizisms the ignorance is clear. don't even try this. if you look at any creationist critisizm, you'd notice it's either a fallacy, or a lie.

"Many Christians were once evolutionists, witches, drug adicts etc. They don't reject such teaching for no reason but ignorance."

aaaaand prepare to be called on the BS.

"You make your statment as if you know my life and all I have studied and been invovled with."

from your commets it would apear you are blatantly ignorant of evolution. and of what god can do. again, you would rather limit god to a book then to the universe.

"If our choice bothers you walk away and try to find security in your own faith or philosophy."

no. you do not "walk away" from discussion about what is true or not.

you will not be spared the mockery for believing illusions because of ignorance.

"It's pretty clear we are secure in ours."

and that means you aren't utilizing your lives to the fullest potential for humanity? no.

does it mean it's not delusional? no.

should it be spared critisizm? no.

"If you are offended by the scripture there is a little "x" at the top right of the screen, just click it."

you do not walk away from somehtign you can argue is false. by your reasoning, we should just "tolerate" gangs, white supremacist or facist, even untill the moment they are on top of us.

"Because in a site like this your going to read allot about Jesus Christ and the Gospel."

all the more reason to speak out our critisizms here.

if you spread lies, you are gonna get called on it.

"You simply choose to reject the scripture the same as we choose to reject evolution theory."

why do you reject evolution? your dogma.

why do we not think the bible is the word of god?

internal inconsitancy, historical debate, banal descriptions, blatant outdatedness, many other holy books, ect ect.

(notice acceptence of science isn't even in the short summery)

see the problem? you are brainwashed, we are just thorough when it comes to finding out what is true.

"The argument, weather by people with doctorates on both sides, or common folk is still nothing more than one faith against another"

way to take a crap on the entire academis world.

you almost don't deserve the all the wonderious thing we discover...

again, ToE isn't just some little "opinion".

"If you don't like the Christian opinion or choice, go to a secular web forum."

or try to demonstrate their fallacious nature.

it's just that simple.

Sci Borg (doctorofscience)

3 days - 4,498v

Posted 2010/04/12 - 2:17 GMT

Well Corey, for one you are on a Christian web forum attacking Christians who disagree with your opinion about what boils down to nothing more than a philosophy.

What? If you honestly believe that scientific theory and philosophy are the same thing, then you clearly don't have even the first clue what a theory is.

Here's some basic, introductory material you might want to have a skim through:

What is Science?

Two, we have read the science books and we do understand what evolution theory is which is why we reject it.

Okay then, I'll bite - explain evolution to us. In your own words, no copy-pasta. Bonus points if you can demonstrate that you've read anything other than gradeschool science textbooks or creationist talking points. And even more bonus points if you can avoid the standard creationist mistakes of confusing the origin of life with the development of life, and/or veering off into unrelated topics like cosmology.

Many Christians were once evolutionists, witches, drug adicts etc.

Cute. Well, by the same token, many "evolutionists" were once creationists, believers in homeopathy, alien abduction, crystal healing, the Moon landing "hoax," and other pseudo-scientific nonsense. Some of them are even *gasp* Christians who also accept theory of evolution! Mind-blowing, I know.

Oh, and I see you're resorting to the idioti "evolutionist" label now. Since someone else said it better than me:

"Relativity and relativism have nothing to do with each other. There's no plate tectonism or quatumism. As such, i know of no way of directly extrapolating from a scientific theory to any '-ism.'

So, why don't you explain in simple language how accepting that evolution provides the best scientific explanation for the diversity of life on earth is translated to this '-ism' you claim to be able to identify."

- http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=217333#p217333

Because in a site like this your going to read allot about Jesus Christ and the Gospel. Besides, acording to the Bible passage that I pasted in, the scoffers are those who deny God and the creation.

...and? To anyone who's not a religious fundamentalist, that's about as convincing than a quote from the Iliad or the Odyssey or the Lord of the Rings.

You simply choose to reject the scripture

When it comes to scientific matters, what makes you think that scripture even merits consideration to begin with? That's something of a pre-requisite for rejection.

the same as we choose to reject evolution theory.

With the "minor" detail that there's actually evidence to support our position.

The argument, weather by people with doctorates on both sides, or common folk is still nothing more than one faith against another, one belief against another, one opinion against another. It is as simple as that.

Sorry, no, it doesn't work that way in reality. Opinions are only as good as the arguments and evidence that can be presented to support them. Claiming otherwise is the standard last resort of those who have no argument or evidence to support their opinions.

If you don't like the Christian opinion or choice, go to a secular web forum.

No thanks. But if dissenting opinions bother you so much, why not take your own advice? It's not like there's any shortage of Christians-only, walled-garden creationist forums out there. If a fundamentalist echo-chamber is what you're looking for, then I'm afraid you're in the wrong place.

thebiblewascompiledin325AD

5 days - 8,032v

Posted 2010/04/08 - 11:49 GMT

" One philosophy against another."

reality is not a philosophy.

science does only works with reality.

"Everyone is free to belive whatever they will, you or I cannot change that no matter how we word our thoughts and opinions or the sorces we use."

right, but if you are concerned with what is consistent in reality, then you better learn to fact check.

"The facts remain that some choose Christ and reject evolution theory, and others choose the latter and reject Christ."

and some pick the middle way.

"our comments and arguments are vain and we waste allot of time in life like this."

agreed. but reading religiously deluded posts and attempts at arguments from ignorance is just fun.

"I choose a simple quiet life of enjoying the fruits of my labor"

fortunately there are also plent of people out there who do step forward and do research.

"f I choose obedience to the Creator God Almighty, what is that to you?"

nothing, unless you rub it in my face, or you start takign a piss on science. which you are doing witht he whole "evolution=theist denialism" thing.

"What are you so afraid of that you attack Christians and The Bible so much?"

that you people waste your life and humanity slows it's progression.

every person we can cram into scientific research isa win for humanity in the long run. why? because i want to see completely carbon neutral economies, stellar space travel, cyber inplants and gene drugs by the end of the century.

don't think i'm scared of some "divine punishment".

if your god IS real, then i'll just display his sadism (or lack of caring) with scripture when i die.

' and weather I am right or wrong should be inconsequential to you."

true, but scientific theories do not work that way. the amount of research done to formulate a theory, especially one liek evolution, is massive. to even try to compare acceptence of scientific theories to "opinion" is just dishonet.

you have no choice in science when it comes to the best explination of data. no personal opinions should impede you at forming the best understanding you can.

"What you think has no effect on my past, present, or furture."

and what if i got into politics? or i picked up some really controversial research? very choice you make effects everything. most of the time you just don't notice it because it's so small.

"My answer was to help Christians think on the Gospel not the scoffing from athieists or whatever people call themselves'

somehow i get this idea you are very unfamiliar with the discussions atheist have with theists...

"On that note, people that continue to scoff so loudly and so often do a very good job of prooving the truth of The Bible."

(this isn't the first tiem i see that passage)

you realize that was actually a clever trick for pr right? "if they pick on us, that means we are just more rigth!".

you could adopt that to even the most ludicrious beliefs. like say....the earth is flat. also, it's this kind of thinking that breeds consipracy theories.

" No I won't be getting any kind of scietific engeneering jobs, that's not my bag and it's pretty much a vain pursuit of wealth and security"

research does NOT PAY WELL.

the largest factor driving research is learning somethign new that can be used ina practical purpose. in the end it's the sales department that earns the money, not the researchers.

"and a waste of money anyway. People put themselves in debt for prestige."

i do not call inventing new medicine's or products "a waste of money".

or would you rather die of that cancer i could have treated?

proper education is NEVER a waste of money.

"I would rather plant vegetables and raise cows and goats"

you never though of how to grow plants better? how to make more productive, or healthier plants and animals, how to reate meat without raising animals?

"help people fix their houses"

what about new house designs? modular homes? digital intergration? increased comfort? safer housing? robots to help around?

"and share my produce with someone who is in need"

and how will you do that with someon who would be in...say china?

who makes the ships, the infrastructure? what is the fastest way to get your produce there? what is the cheapest? how do we make it faster? how do we make it easier? ect..

" it is simply my choice."

yes.

now what was the entire point of your story?

what you just did is blurt out your religiously motivated opinion, and then tell some petty tale because "i just wanted to say somehting but i'm not interested in defending my statements or critisizms".

but when you critisize science, you better be able to defend your critisizms, because that's what you do in science. and that's what everyone should be doing when they talk about science, ignorant public not excluded.

if you choose to turn ToE into somehting it's not, prepare to be called on your BS.

"Perhaps if your going to read the Old Testiment so much, try reading Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, it is an interesting study."

which make interesting reading after all the blood sacrifice and divine incompetence.

Sci Borg (doctorofscience)

3 days - 4,498v

Posted 2010/04/12 - 1:25 GMT

One philosophy against another.

Science is not a philosophy. At most, it is an example of the naturalist philosophy put into practice - simply put, the idea that effects arise from things other than magical causes. And in terms of things like alleviating basic human suffering, I think the results speak for themselves... slightly better track record than prayer, last I checked.

If I choose obedience to the Creator God Almighty, what is that to you? What do you care? If I choose simplicity over the stress of so called higher education, what is that to you?

Honestly, it doesn't make a whit of difference to me what you believe. But that's a red herring, because that's not why people argue with creationists. To quote Arthur C. Clarke again, "I would defend the liberty of concenting adult creationists to practice whatever intellectual perversions they like in the privacy of their own homes".

When you start trying to dispute scientific theories with nothing more than religious dogma stated as fact, you're probably going to get dissenting replies.

What are you so afraid of that you attack Christians and The Bible so much?

Afraid? Don't flatter yourself. Let me spell it out for you: if you post something that is verifiably bullshit on a public forum, people will call you on it.

Welcome to the Internet.

Weather you are right or wrong is certainly inconsequential to me. What you think has no effect on my past, present, or furture.

Likewise, I can assure you.

Here's a quote I'm a little more fond of:

"The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history." -Robert A. Heinlein

No I won't be getting any kind of scietific engeneering jobs, that's not my bag and it's pretty much a vain pursuit of wealth and security

I suspect that the people involved with ogranizations like Engineers Without Borders would beg to differ.

Sci Borg (doctorofscience)

3 days - 4,498v

Posted 2010/04/12 - 0:35 GMT

I don't think you understand what the word "theory" means in the scientific sense - it's not a synonym for "supposition" or "wild guess". In fact, good theories (and the process that leads to them) are about as far away from blind religious faith as you can get.

Scientific theories are rejected unless they are supported by evidence. Scientific theories make testable predictions by which they can be validated (or disproven). And it's usually a theory's originator who puts the most effort into finding wholes in said theory. All concepts which are almost entirely foreign to the practice of relgious fundamentalism.

In my experience men, or women, simply cannot be trusted to be honest all the time and rarely most of the time.

Agreed. And that's the beauty of science: it still functions, and produces useful results, despite that fact. Sure, scientists are human - they make mistakes... but you know who discoveres those faults? Other scientists, in almost every case. And you know how? By consistent application of the scientific method.

That's why science is often referred to as "self-correcting".

Also from what I have studied the teaching of evolution is nothing more than a way of denying the Creator and thus denying judgment and is rooted and grows out of the fear of death.

That doesn't make a shred of sense. First of all, if you're going to get up in arms about science "denying the creator," evolutionary biology doesn't hold a candle to physics or cosmology. And secondly, I can think of a few Christians who would disagree with you - Ken Miller, for instance... not to mention the fact that most Christian denominations believe in something called "theistic evolution."

So people choose the theory as an alternative to obedience so they can follow their own lusts and live in denial,

Yes, that must be why, say, teen pregnancy rates are so much higher in less religious areas.

...wait, sorry, it's actually the complete opposite. My bad.

When it comes down to it what people really hate is this simple truth;

"The only true sin is to harm another unnecessarily. All other 'sin' is purely invented nonsense." -Robert A. Heinlein

There, fixed that for you.

That leaves one of two choices in everything, accept the Creator or deny Him.

Also known as the logical fallacy of "false dichotomy".

Christians need to stop debating all these worldly ideals and start loving one another as Christ commanded

Now there's an idea.

Yes, the theories that attack my God and King anger me

If so, you're looking at those theories from the wrong perspective. If there is a God, those theories are are not attacks - they're attempts at explaining "His" creations. As Arthur C. Clarke put it, "If creationists truy understood evolution, they would try to give God credit for it."

thedude

2 weeks - 32,767v

Posted 2010/04/08 - 4:56 GMT

Unfortunately, those who wear Bible Glasses, will never admit it or realize they do.

It's all part of the brain-washing that takes away individuality.

Molecular Biology kicks creationists ass (Ellman)

2 days - 2,415v

Posted 2010/04/09 - 21:41 GMT

Nice Silas, a couple of questions i would love to get answered.

"People are free to think what they will but it is possible that God will judge evryone by His Word."
- So why do you condem those who don't believe what you do? And how can god say anything if he's not actually a physical being? How can he think without a brain? Let alone make a decision about someone...

Why do you not think for yourself instead of taking all your thoughts and ideas from a 2000 year old book? And live, not by your standards, but by that book. Is that free will?

"That leaves the debate up to what is considered spiritual and that is something we just don't know for certain and that leaves it all up to faith weather it is faith in God or faith in some theory dreamed up by men."
- So you think scientific work is some mumbo-jumbo made up in some high grade scam? Cuz that's what you're saying.
I quote wikipedia cuz im lazy, but you get the picture.
"In the sciences, a scientific theory (also called an empirical theory) comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observablephenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena."

Don't speak bullshit please, I'm allergic to it.

"In my experience men, or women, simply cannot be trusted to be honest all the time and rarely most of the time."
- I wouldn't say that you're in a position to criticize academic work. I mean you wouldn't tell an austronaut what to do in his line of work when you're a farmer... Or would you?

"Also from what I have studied the teaching of evolution is nothing more than a way of denying the Creator and thus denying judgment and is rooted and grows out of the fear of death."
- By the sound of that statement you wrote "theory of evolution" in the creationwiki searchfield. It's the same site that claims that homosexuality is a mental disease and gives you aids and certain illnesess. With about 2 sources on the whole site and those sources aren't really credible. If you don't believe me I'll show you.

"So people choose the theory as an alternative to obedience so they can follow their own lusts and live in denial, all the while deep inside people are really hoping the judgment isn't true but they just don't know for certain. "
- The ToE is not telling anyone how to live or what to believe. Now for atheists... How can we hope something isn't true if we don't believe in it? It's like if you don't believe in santa claus and hopes he woun't punish you for being naughty! Beware! If you don't embrace the flying spaghettimonster he'll buttrape you with his noodle-tentacles! You must be soooo afraid atm that he's gonna come home to you and do it when you fall asleep. You must repent!

...

HAHA. You see how stupid that sounds? If you didn't get the sarcasm and irony/parody then i am deeply sorry you can't use your brain normaly :/

"When it comes down to it what people really hate is this simple truth"
- No people are afraid of coming to insight of things that will disrupt their image of themselves and their world. It's like if you get undeniable proof that you are the worst person in the world at something. It destroys your selfimage and selfesteem. That's why ppl live in denial instead of accepting how the world for what it is. I personally think that many christians are doubting in faith, but they can't let it go because then they think their live would have no meaning. Atheists on the other hand MAKE their own meaning of life. We want to leave this world better than we entered it. Both me and 325 study what we do for that cause. I want to work with medicine and helping people get better by understanding how our bodies work etc. That's why we get so pissed when you call what we do "dreams" and bullshit without even knowing what it is and giving anything to support those unfounded claims.

"Joh 3:19-21 ..."
- How nice bible verses... You do know that bible verses etc. ain't gonna do shit to an atheist? Or even supporting your cause for creationism.

"That leaves one of two choices in everything, accept the Creator or deny Him. "
- What if they aren't mutually exclusive? What if you can do other stuff?

"Christians need to stop debating all these worldly ideals and start loving one another as Christ commanded, start living in obediance by the grace by which they have been saved from judgment, and start living the very Gospel they preach."
- correction, as THE BIBLE commanded...

"No I won't be getting any kind of scietific engeneering jobs, that's not my bag and it's pretty much a vain pursuit of wealth and security, and a waste of money anyway."
- Let me guess, you aren't european? You're just giving bad excuses to why you wouldn't want to do it because you can't. It's like if you can't go to a party and you say "ah it will be borring anyways so it doesn't matter that im not allowed to go". Right, keep telling yourself that ;)

"What are you so afraid of that you attack Christians and The Bible so much?"
- The only fear is that idiocy and religious dogma destroys our work. When you attack us we attack back. You know "the best defence is a good offence"? Pretty much what we do. Haltering the stupidity from spreading. "Bullshit spreads like wildfire in a crowd"

"Well Corey, for one you are on a Christian web forum attacking Christians who disagree with your opinion about what boils down to nothing more than a philosophy."
- Huh? Last time i checked this was a creationist forum. Might as well be muslims here. So prove us wrong instead of spewing bullshit about us being mean towards christians. ok?

Now on to the arguments. Are you gonna post any arguements for you belief in creationism and then run away cuz all your arguments have already been delt with numerous times on this site OR are you gonna give us a new one? Can't wait.

Silas (Renza)

40 minutes - 25v

Posted 2010/04/16 - 17:48 GMT

Nope, I got nothin new to say that somone else hasn't already said somehwere else in history.

I will say that I condemn no one, that's not my place. And I am not against science. If it were not for the advancments good common sense science has produced I would not have a job in the screwed up economy we have these days.

But I am against the theory of evolution, which is not science and has not been observed or repeated...and the argument goes on and on, one opinion against another.

I suppose we will see who is right come the end of all things, for now we are still free to think and beleive what we choose, no matter what our reasons are.

I don't have to "prove" the Bible, it is capable of proving itself. That is why it is still beleived after 2000 years of the Gospel being preached.

thebiblewascompiledin325AD

5 days - 8,032v

Posted 2010/04/16 - 23:41 GMT

:"good common sense science"

commen sense is useless in science.

the anatomy of the human brain is not suited for complex things like statistics, quantum mechanics or relativity.

"But I am against the theory of evolution,"

so your previous statement was a lie.

you are agaisnt scienc. why? because i, ellman and many others actually use ToE in our studies.

"which is not science and has not been observed or repeated"

NYLONASE.

or try this one.

http://myxo.css.msu.edu/lenski/pdf/2008,%20PNAS,%20Blount%20et%20al.pdf

or dam! lets even google" observed instances of speciation"

never observed? BS!

and you should be ashamed to claim otherwise when it's so demonstrably apparent.

"and the argument goes on and on, one opinion against another."

you don't argue with data. you only record and analyze it.

" it is capable of proving itself *considerably inconsistent*"

there fixed that for you.

Sci Borg (doctorofscience)

3 days - 4,498v

Posted 2010/04/17 - 21:14 GMT

I will say that I condemn no one, that's not my place.

No, you'll just characterize them as (and I quote) "choos[ing] the theory as an alternative to obedience so they can follow their own lusts and live in denial". Because that's not a condemnation at all.

And I am not against science.

Just science that contradicts fundamentalist dogma?

If it were not for the advancments good common sense science has produced I would not have a job in the screwed up economy we have these days.

"Common sense science" - like what? Good science isn't really about common sense - to paraphrase a source I can't remember, science is a bizarre mix of free-wheeling imagination and bending-over backwards with skepticism.

But I am against the theory of evolution, which is not science and has not been observed or repeated...

Has not been observed? How do you explain the evidence of the fossil record, then? Maybe the global flood just coincidentally sorted animals into layers with less-advanced animals appearing in lower strata and their more-advanced ancestors in higher strata?

I don't have to "prove" the Bible, it is capable of proving itself. That is why it is still beleived after 2000 years of the Gospel being preached.

So if the works of William Shakespeare are still being read in 1,500 years, that will make them "proven" as well? I'm sure that news will make many an English major happy.

Mike (mwolf)

15 hours - 580v

Posted 2010/06/10 - 14:08 GMT

oh I see, you have no life, so you choose to save the children? What an honorable human you are. lol Shame you are full of crap. You do it for yourself. Like every other Atheist. You hate God and want others to hate God, for you, not for them. While you focus on christians "the" real religion. Why not, it is safe to attack Christians, cause we are so violent. Where is your outrage against islam? Oh, they will hunt you down and murder you, so you kiss their ass like a good coward. While your people are busy trying to destroying our way of life. Look at your democraphics genius. You will shit yourself. You think killing christianity will stop them fool. Why aren't you lovingly teaching the children about a real fake religion that has your head and your childrens heads in it's scopes? Bye bye Europe. You are already dead and don't know it.

thebiblewascompiledin325AD

5 days - 8,032v

Posted 2010/06/10 - 17:11 GMT

"You hate God and want others to hate God, for you, not for them"'

i probably hate santa too then, right?

"While you focus on christians "the" real religion."

....i critisize ANY relgion, even joined in on "everybody draw mohammed".

"so you kiss their ass like a good coward."

the irony here is that most of us here are pretty vocal when it comes to freedom of expression.

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